My own Personal Experiences - Part 1: Prof Anil Kumar
Anil Kumar's Sunday Satsang at Prasanthi Nilayam
October 27, 2002
My Own Personal Experiences
Part One
OM… OM… OM…
Sai Ram.
With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan,
Dear Brothers and Sisters!
The Completion of Sixty Years
There have been repeated requests from friends -- in fact they have
been demands, so I can't just say requests -- asking me to share my
personal experiences with devotees, which I have not done so far.
(Applause) I feel that it amounts to self-praise and I am hesitant
that it may not help others. My experiences may not help others and
it may also exhibit my vanity or ego. These have been my misgivings
or misapprehensions regarding the subject of sharing my personal
experiences.
There is one milestone in each individual life. It is clearly stated
that one has to totally dedicate himself to his own liberation, for
his own salvation. One lives for a job; one struggles hard for money;
one strives very much to settle his children; but after sixty,
completing sixty, the scriptures clearly say, "My dear boy, it is
time to retire. You can no longer involve yourself in avenues of
income, and it's not proper to think of professional promotions. It
is absolutely foolish to think of your name, fame and esteem because
after sixty, the time you have left is to live for yourself. You are
no longer going to live for your family; you are not going to be
interested in wealth or name, dignity or prestige - nothing! It is
time for you to meditate, to reflect, to go within, to turn inward."
The completion of sixty years in our scriptures is called 'Shasthi
Poorti'. 'Shashti' means 'sixty' and 'poorti' means 'completed'. As I
have completed Shasthi Poorti, I take this opportunity today to share
my experiences in all humility and in all reverence.
First, let me express my gratitude from the bottom of my heart. I
really mean 100% of what I say. I'm grateful to every one of you for
all the encouragement that you have given me, for all the support you
have extended to me, for all the rapt attention with which you have
heard my talks. You have made me go through Sai literature in depth.
You have helped me to just reach across the shores of Sai literature.
You have helped me to go into the depth of Sai philosophy. Therefore
kindly accept my grateful thanks each and every one of you.
Had there not been this satsang, this assembly of noble souls, it
would not have been possible for me to come out with these topics of
immense interest. Because there have been continuous requests, even
demands, from friends, this morning I seek your permission to speak
on a personal note. I'm sure that you must know me by now, that
you'll never misunderstand me. In all humility, I submit to you my
own experiences.
My Grandfathers
I came to the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan in the year 1970, thirty-two
years ago. To tell you honestly, I belonged to a family of Brahmo
Samaj. Brahmo Samaj happens to be an improvement, if I am to say, or
the modern presentation of Hindu faith. Raja Rammohan Roy founded
Brahmo Samaj. He was very much interested in woman's emancipation and
very much interested in a classless society. Brahmo Samaj doesn't
believe in idolatry; it does not accept worship. Brahmo Samaj's
emphasis is on meditation, on God who is attributeless and formless,
who has neither a beginning nor an end. Brahmo Samaj believes in the
fellowship of faiths, the equality of all religions. It does not
accept yagnas, yagas, worship or pictures or incarnations - nothing
whatsoever.
I belong to the third generation of Bramo faith. My maternal
grandfather and my paternal grandfather, who were classmates, later
became related. Both of them were Brahmo Samaj missionaries for sixty
years.
My maternal grandfather served as editor of one magazine, a spiritual
magazine, with all the details of philosophy, by name 'Darshan
Sadhani', which means 'The Spiritual Path along the Path of Dharma'.
For forty-five years, he was editor of that magazine.
My paternal grandfather served for fifty years as editor of another
magazine, 'Dharma Jyoti' -- 'The Light of Righteousness'. Both of
them were married by Sri Kandakuri Veresharam Pantulu, a great
reformer from the state of Andhra Pradesh. Both of them happened to
be Brahmo Samaj missionaries.
In our homes, we did not have any pictures of Rama, Krishna - nothing
whatsoever - no formal worship, no ritual, nothing except prayers and
meditation. I belonged to that kind of family.
My Mother and Father
A matter of personal note I should also tell you: My father, late Sri
K. Bappayya did his MA in English literature, MSc honours in physics,
BEd diploma in library science. He was an outstanding student and a
gold medallist. He retired as the Deputy Director of Higher Education.
Then there is my mother: I want to tell you two points in this
connection. In those days, it was a matter of sin for a girl to go to
school or to college. No woman had any higher education - none. Every
girl got married below the age of eight. That was the horrible
situation of the society here in this country.
My grandfather, being a Brahmo Samaj reformer and missionary, had my
mother educated up to the post-graduate degree, MA English literature
from Queen Mary's College, Madras. She was the gold medallist in
English literature in the former Madras State.
When my mother used to go off to college, it seems that most of the
people came out of their houses and watched her proceed into the
college. They condemned my grandfather, as he was the man who sent a
daughter off like this. That was the condition then. The fact is that
she was the first lady graduate from the state of Andhra Pradesh.
(Applause) She retired as the District Education Officer. My father
is no more, but my mother is eighty-six, still hale and healthy, a
very honest officer. (Applause)
Naturally, there are very few Brahmo Samaj families today. We are
three brothers and a sister, so it was difficult to get us married to
those belonging to the Brahmo Samaj. It was not easy because we do
not have enough Brahmo families. However, there was some attraction
because the Brahmo Samaj does not accept or approve of any dowry.
That was a matter of attraction for perspective brides to visit us.
(Laughter) So there was no dowry and only a few people there to offer
their daughters in marriage to all three of the brothers. Some of
that was the only incentive for them, and somehow, by God's Grace, we
got married. (Laughter) Or else it would not have been possible!
It really is a matter of surprise when I look at my only three
wedding photos. I see my mother-in-law with a long face and my father-
in-law with no cheer on his face. They look very worried about their
daughter. This girl would be stepping into a family where there is no
worship, where there is no puja, no Rama or Krishna pictures. 'Is she
going to live or not? What are these fellows going to do?' I read
that expression on their faces. Even today, I amuse myself by looking
at the photographs taken in those days.
My College Days
I very well remember my college days. One day I attended a thread
ceremony, upanayanam, of one of my classmates. It was lunchtime and
suddenly word was sent to me, "You'll be served food on the veranda."
(Laughter) Everyone else could fit inside. The only reason for this
was that I happened to be the son and grandson of Brahmo Samaj
followers, who don't believe in idolatry, who don't have a thread
ceremony, who don't observe the caste system, who believed in
reforms, who believed in woman's emancipation. So they said, "You'll
have your food on the veranda."
I was studying SLC at that time, in 1957. Immediately I said, "Don't
take the trouble of serving the food on the veranda. I'll have my
food at home." That's one thing I very much remember. Since then, I
have never visited their home.
I also remember another incident of one of my classmates who
celebrated Sita Rama Kalyana, the holy wedding of Rama and Sita. It
is performed annually by some of the families. I went there. When
they served special sweets and other items, they asked me to go on
the veranda, saying they were serving food to me outside the house. I
said, "Please keep it for yourself, thank you very much." I left the
house.
Then I started to imagine the face of my parents. If that was the
situation in the 1950's, you can imagine the position in the 1930's.
Both grandfathers were not allowed by their parents to be with them
because they did not approve of idolatry of anything whatsoever. That
was my position in those days. Somehow things went on like that.
My Wife's Operation and Temple Visits
To cut the story short, in the year 1970, we had a problem. I have
four children. They are all happily married and well settled, but in
those days, in 1970, the eldest was seven years old, while the
youngest was a few months old. My wife had a problem. People said
that she had developed an ulcer on the uterus. I consulted about
seven doctors all over Guntur, some of who were returning from
foreign countries. I spent a lot of money to have a second opinion, a
third opinion -- like that, repeated opinions. Everyone said that she
must be operated upon immediately because the ulcer might turn into
cancer. That's what they said. Even professors of gynecology said the
same thing.
It was a hot summer. Left with no option, I got her operated on and
it was a success. Later she was psychologically upset. She felt that
something was wrong with her; and she could not eat anything, but
only drink buttermilk, that's all. She said that she felt a burning
sensation. Therefore, I took her to about thirteen doctors, all over
Guntur. Today whenever I meet a doctor, he says, "How is your wife?"
I feel very much embarrassed. I wish that I could avoid all these
doctors because in those days, that situation had become the talk of
the town.
All of them said, "She's fine. Nothing is wrong with her." We became
a laughing stalk to our own parents. "When doctors say nothing's
wrong with her, why is she complaining of burning sensation and why
is she unable to eat anything?"
At that time someone said, "Why don't you take her to a temple?" As
Brahmo Samaj's do not visit temples, what could we do? Then I told
her, "Since you come from a traditional orthodox Brahmin family, and
as I am a democrat, I don't mind taking you to the temple."
(Laughter) So everyday we used to visit a temple, accompanied by our
four children
There was one condition -- I would always remain outside the temple.
She would go inside. I didn't want to be transformed or converted!
(Laughter) I wanted to stick to my own guns. She was quite happy that
she was going to the temple everyday. I made my children play there
and I played with them. That was my part during that time.
"Why Don't We Go To Puttaparthi?"
Finally, one day when we were returning, we heard some bhajans
somewhere. My wife said, "Why don't we go there?" Immediately we went
there and heard bhajans. For the first time, I saw Bhagavan Sri
Sathya Sai Baba's photo. I had not seen His picture before. I had
only heard about Him.
In college I used to speak -- not positively -- about Bhagavan. In
fact, one day a girl was wearing a locket with Bhagavan's picture, so
I sent her out of class!
"You have no business having Baba's picture in my class." (Laughter)
And, when a student wore a ring, I asked him to get out of the
classroom, I used to say, "Don't ask me important questions for the
examination because I'm not Sathya Sai Baba."
In addition, if anybody came with a mop of hair, I used to
joke, "Would you like to imitate Sai Baba?" (Laughter)
In those days, that was my pitiable, shameful, meaningless prejudice
and bias, an inexcusable, unpardonable frame of mind.
After attending the bhajan, my wife said, "Why don't we go to
Puttaparthi?" (Laughter)
The family that does not approve of Rama, Krishna or Venkateswara,
now we are to go to Puttaparthi! It was something like the boon that
Kaika asked from Dasaratha, which eventually lead to Dasaratha's
death. (Laughter)
I said, "You have been so good until now. I don't know why you have
become Kaika. How can I take you to Puttaparthi? Impossible! My
parents won't approve."
I came from a joint family, where parents and grandparents all live
together. "They won't approve. "
She said, "Would you like me to survive or not? Can you give me a
guarantee that you will take care of these four children, thank you?"
(Laughter)
Then I started shivering in my shoes.
I said, "All right, I'll take you, but on two conditions. The first
is that you do not ask me to go into Prashanti Nilayam. The other is
that you don't ask me to do namaskaar to Baba. (Laughter) Point one,
don't force me to go into Prashanti Nilayam; point two, never ask me
to do namaskaar to Baba."
Another situation was that I taught at a Christian college, where it
was very difficult to get personal leave. The Lutheran Church in
America sponsors the college, where I had served for twenty-six long
years. They were a very strict and very disciplined institution. It
was impossible to get personal leave.
So I made another condition. I told her, "I can only give you four
days. Beyond that, I'm not going to stay. Better you stay, that's
all."
Somehow we came to an agreement. There is only a gap of one year
between us, so she understood that I was just compromising to find a
solution. That was the situation.
So we came here! Really, I did not step into Prashanti Nilayam during
all those days. I stayed away, that's all, making the children play.
That was my condition. I did not want to displease my parents and
grandparents. They were staunch followers of the Brahmo faith and
they had sacrificed their lives. Their parents and society had
forsaken them. I was their son; I could not betray them.
At lunchtime, my wife and I would have heated arguments, as in the
Parliament. She always used to say, "What is wrong if you come and
sit?"
I said, "You said 'Yes' at home. (Laughter) Why don't you keep the
promise you gave me? Don't do this!" (Laughter)
"No, no, you can sit!"
"No, no, I won't sit."
This was the heated discussion, morning and evening, everyday.
I Did Namaskaar to Him
On the final day, I was to leave here to go home. I was standing with
our four kids near the Gopuram gate, which is now closed. In those
days, the Gopuram gate was always kept open. I was standing with the
children at the gate. It was bhajan time. Swami was seated in a chair
in the bhajan hall. Suddenly He left His chair and walked towards me,
the whole way. (Laughter) He stood in front of me. I felt like
running away! (Laughter)
I stared and, praying to the formless, attributeless God, asked that
He make Swami leave -- that was my silent prayer. However, Swami
stood in front of me and just looked at me from top to bottom, "Hmm,"
Swami said, and then left. I did not do any namaskaar at all.
(Laughter) Good! That was the agreement -- we can't break the
agreement!
Swami went back and sat. While bhajans were going on, I kept standing
in the same spot. Again, Swami came down and walked towards me, all
the distance, which does not usually happen. He stood in front of me
and did not leave until I did namaskaar. (Laughter and applause) He
did not leave that place at all. What was I to do? Hopelessly, with
hands shivering and folded most unwillingly -- but out of fear,
nothing to do with love or devotion -- it just happened like that! Or
I should say, Bhagavan saw to it that I did namaskaar to Him. He did
not leave until then.
As He was walking away, suddenly a plate appeared in His hands with
laddus. Ay-ree! I saw Him just walking like that.
I was wondering, "Where did the plate come from? Who gave Him the
plate with laddus?"
Then He started distributing those laddus to some of the laborers
working there. It was during the construction of the Poornachandra
Auditorium and He distributed laddus to everybody.
Then I thought, "More than You, Your laddus will be helpful to my
children. (Laughter) They would like them very much."
Well, I didn't have any faith in Him, but let me see, I had total
faith in laddus! (Laughter) I knew the taste of them. So, along with
the children, I went there. But when the last laddu was given to the
last worker, the plate vanished. That was the first miracle I
experienced.
"Why Don't You Call Me?"
The next morning around 10:30 AM, I went to catch the bus. I was
sitting by the station. A man, whom I had never met before, by the
name of Naidu, introduced himself. He said, "I am the Headmaster of
Easwaramma High School."
I said to myself, 'So what if you are the Headmaster or Director! How
am I concerned? I'm waiting for my bus. I must go.'
I was also feeling within myself, "Oh God, You have been picking out
people for an interview. Why don't You call me? Why not? I am in no
way a rowdy. I'm not a bank robber. I'm not a reactionary. I'm not a
Naxalite - I'm not a man of violence. Besides, my parents and
grandparents are very great. I'm trying to live up to their
expectations, though I am sure I can never equal and excel them for a
lifetime. But, I know this -- I should not bring a bad name to them.
That is enough. Why don't You call me?" That was my feeling.
Then this man said, "Anil Kumar, are you feeling sad that Swami is
not calling you?" I did not tell him anything. (Laughter)
Then I thought, 'Prashanti Nilayam as a place is sufficiently
dangerous, and fellows like this are much more dangerous. (Laughter)
Better I leave this place!' That's what I thought.
Then the man said slowly, "Please don't go. Sit down; sit down. Don't
feel sorry for not being called for an interview. Swami calls many
people. Some Naxalites, men of violence, from Calcutta were given an
interview. Why an interview is given is best known to Him. One
patient is just asked to go home and another patient is operated on.
It does not mean that the doctor loves only the fellow on whom he
operates. No, no, no! One patient requires an operation, while
another patient just requires some liquid, some mixture. That's all.
Baba knows what is best. Don't worry." That's what he said.
I also suspected that he might come out with some other statements
because my brain was full of dirt and dust, which should not be
shared with anybody. So, "Thank you, sir," I said and I left that
place.
After leaving him, I began looking at a Swami book, Sathya Sai
Speaks, Volume V. While I was reading two talks, I became very much
interested. Immediately, I purchased the whole set of books that were
available at that time. I think there was up to Sathya Sai Speaks,
Volume XII then. After I returned home.
Back home, believe me, my wife's health picked up. She was perfect,
hale and healthy - no complaints thereafter. It took just a mere
visit to Prashanti, that's all. (Applause) No interview, no smile, no
conversation, nothing -- and with her husband, this bloke, totally
negative! (Laughter) Totally negative, that was my position. Anyway,
she was all right and I started reading Sai literature.
I Was Just a First Class Student
Here I should tell you that I never got less than 60% in my subjects
throughout my student career. I took care to see that they would not
be less than 60, and they have taken care to see they would not
exceed 70! (Laughter) So I was always between 60 and 70, that's all.
I never stood first in the class. I never got any gold medal - no,
no, no, I was not an outstanding student, just a first class student -
65, 68, that's all. That was my student career.
But right from childhood through high school level, college level and
university level, I always stood first in inter-collegiate, inter-
university elocution competitions --debating competitions. I always
stood first there, but in study -- only first class, that's all.
Otherwise my parents wouldn't allow me to participate in elocution.
They would say, "Unless you get first class, we won't send you to
compete."
So, I did it only for that fulfilment. I was very much interested in
public speaking right from childhood. That was my condition.
Later, after completing my MSc degree, my mother wanted me to be a
class one IAS officer, but I did not apply. I did not fill out the
application. My mother wanted me to at least be a radio announcer. I
did not do that! She wanted me to become a bank officer. I did not
apply!
I told her, "Mother, I want to be a teacher."
She said, "I don't want you to be a teacher because your parents and
grandparents, all of us are teachers. We want to have some officer
now. I don't want you to do that."
But I said, "I want to be teacher." So she could not help it.
I Became a Teacher
When my mother went to some place on inspection and my father was
also out-of-station, I got the job and began immediately. I did not
want to face them and have them say 'no' to me. By the time they
returned from their camps, they saw me getting ready to go to the
college. It was too late and somehow they compromised.
But my friends, I tell you that I have no regrets for having become a
teacher. Given a chance, in the next life I also want to become a
teacher. (Applause) The reason is that the 'bank account' is the
heart of my student. The 'entries in my passbook' are the feelings of
love and affection that my students have towards me. I have completed
forty years as a teacher. I have no regrets. I love this profession.
Just for a change, my younger brother became a doctor and my mother
was happy. But then that fellow became a professor of pathology and
principal of a medical college. (Laughter)
Then my mother wanted at least the son-in-law of the family to be an
engineer from an institute of technology. But he became a professor
of mechanical engineering at an engineering institute of technology.
So what is destined, no one can change. The entire family had the
genes for teaching, that's all. We cannot help it.
When my grandfather wanted me to become a Brahmo Samaj missionary, my
mother said, "Nothing doing. He should be a normal householder. We
have seen you suffer from this. Please leave our son like this."
But no one can say what is in store for us. I became a Sathya Sai
Samaj missionary right from 1972. (Applause) Who can stop it?
Later my mother wrote an article in a magazine: "What I never wanted
happened in this fellow's case." That is destiny. We cannot change
it.
I Was a Non-Entity for Eight Years
As things went on, (I'm telling you my friends, please believe me)
for eight years Bhagavan never looked at me - no smiles, no
padanamaskar and no interview. I was miles away from Him. I always
got in row thirty through thirty-five! (Laughter)
Because of my speaking ability -- I should say speaking -- which was
a virtue at one time, later became a vice. Even then (as now), I went
on speaking a lot and some of the office-bearers became acquainted
with me. Then, when I had just managed to sit in the front row or
third row by maneuvering, manipulating and managing the people there
because of my familiarity and acquaintance with them, Bhagavan used
to completely cancel darshan towards that wing! (Laughter) Other
times, if I managed to sit where He came, He would see everybody
except me.
"Get up, get up," He would say to others. It was as if I was in a
vacuum.
I was a non-entity, a non-existence - not even the size of a mosquito
or an ant! (Laughter) He used to call everybody. This type of 'Divine
Romance' went on for eight long years, I tell you!
In those days, many people used to ask me, "When Swami does not look
at you, when He does not talk to you, why do you keep coming like
this?"
I said, "We are teachers. If a fellow fails in a March examination,
he will appear for a supplementary September examination. (Laughter)
He'll get through then. So, He may not talk to me now. But what if
next life we will meet?"
All through that time, this is what I was feeling.
After eight long years, during Dasara a sudden message was sent that
Swami wanted me. "Anil Kumar should come to the Auditorium
immediately."
'Why?' Well, I have my own luggage. I have my own worth, not anyone
else's. 'There is no reason to call me all of a sudden. How does He
know me? Baba, how do You know me? First, is it this Anil Kumar or
somebody else?' (Laughter)
So I went there and the Seva Dal told me to sit in the front row.
Swami came! He looked at everybody except me! (Laughter) I see! Okay,
as usual, eight years! "Once bitten, twice shy." Okay, that's how I
felt. Then I went to Kasturi's house to seek his clarification, "Sir,
is it true that I was wanted here?"
He said, "Yes."
"How is it that Bhagavan did not look at me?"
"I do not know."
Either he must be bluffing, or I must be under misapprehension, or my
destiny must have been like that.
Anantapur Campus
Somehow, utterly disappointed, telling myself, 'Anyway, it doesn't
matter', I just returned and participated in a Ramayana seminar in
Hindupur, very close to this district. After participating in
Hindupur, I wanted Bhagavan's darshan, so I came to Puttaparthi.
Suddenly, as I was coming on the bus, I saw Swami's car going in the
opposite direction.
The driver said, "Sir, Swami is leaving for Anantapur."
'Oh-ho! Swami, so far You have avoided me. Now You are avoiding
Puttaparthi also. (Laughter) I'm so great as to make You move and
shift, very good!' (Laughter) I see. Then I thought, 'I should also
go to Anantapur.'
I got off this bus and got on another bus. I requested this driver to
stop the bus near the Anantapur Campus College gate. I had no idea
about Swami's institutions and Swami's discipline. I had no idea at
all.
I got out there and the gateman said, "Who are you?"
What am I to say? I have no answer. I simply said, "I want to see
Baba."
He said, "Impossible."
"Why?"
"This is a girls' college." (Laughter)
"Ah, so what? I have not come here to see girls. I have come to see
Swami! (Laughter) So there are girls! It doesn't matter. I want to
see Swami. I teach at a Christian college, where we have two
thousands girls. I can see them there. It is not necessary to come
here. Why?" (Laughter) What he said made me conclude that the
Anantapur Girls' College would not permit even a male mosquito to get
in, (Laughter) let alone a man! That's what I understood.
Then the gateman said that somehow his heart melted watching my
pitiable face. Perhaps, he was sympathetic. He said, "Put your
luggage there and stand here. If you move even an inch, I'll throw
you out." (Laughter) This much was good. I was standing there. By
that time, Bhagavan had completed the governing body meeting at the
Anantapur campus. The members of the governing body happened to be
V.K. Gokak, Mr. Craxi (a well-known Italian devotee), the late Dr.
Bhagavantham, and S. Naidu - great people in those days, great
scholars.
"Anil Kumar, Come Here!"
Swami came along with all the people, proceeding towards the dining
hall. He stood there on the veranda and shouted, "Anil Kumar, come
here!" (Laughter) It was the first time, and after eight (long) years.
Then I thought, 'It must be the name of the watchman and not my
name.' (Laughter)
So I asked the man next to me, "Hey, is your name 'Anil Kumar'?"
"Oh no, sir. No, I'm not 'Anil Kumar'."
Then I didn't want to take the chance. So I kept quiet.
Then Swami shouted, "Oh professor, come here! Come here, Anil Kumar!"
There was not another person there, and the guard was not a
professor, I was sure. (Laughter) 'Swami must be meaning me!' So, I
went running all the way.
Bhagavan introduced me to everybody. "He's a professor in botany from
a Christian college. Last night he gave a lecture in Hindupur and
many people participated. His talk was very well received by
everybody - men, women and children." He went on giving details of my
speech.
'What happened to You, Swami, all these eight years?' (Laughter) When
You can repeat verbatim the highlights, the important points, from my
talk, why did You not look at me earlier?' I could not reconcile that
feeling - it was so bad. Immediately He materialized vibhuthi, gave
it to me and said, "Give it to your wife. She'll be all right. She
brought you here." (Applause)
Accommodation Inside
Then He said, "Come and attend Dasara."
I had never wanted to attend Dasara. I was not sure of accommodation.
I didn't know what to say.
So I said, "Dasara, Swami?"
"Yes, Dasara," He said.
So, I attended the Dasara festival. Because I could not get
accommodation inside, I stayed in a room outside the Mandir. In those
years, the rooms outside had no doors and no windows (Laughter). They
were all collapsible, replaceable doors (Laughter) -- everything was
like an open-air university system. (Laughter) Open air, that's all.
So, oh, I see. One had to sleep in tune to the lullaby -- the music --
of the mosquitoes. Plus there were no fans there. Then at 4:30 in
the morning, for twenty-five paisa, they would supply hot water. Then
that was the rate. Somehow, I went on like that.
After three days, Bhagavan came close and said, "Where are you
staying?"
"I'm staying outside."
"Why? Stay inside."
"Inside where? Who will give me an accommodation? Where, Swami?"
"Inside! Don't you understand Me?"
'Inside? Inside the Mandir or what?' I had no idea.
Then I said, "Swami, I paid in advance to that man." (Laughter)
"No, No, No! You go to that man and ask him to return the advance.
He'll give it to you. Don't worry. You say My name, that's all," Baba
said.
I didn't know about these things then. "Oh Swami, will he return the
money? In this Kali Yuga, who will return money?" (Laughter)
"No, No, No! They will give it to you. Go and tell them," He
said. "It's all right."
"Ah, Swami, You said, 'inside.' Where is inside?"
Then Swami called Kutumba Rao, who was there at that time, and
said, "Kutumba Rao, give him accommodation immediately. I am telling
you that whenever he comes here, give him accommodation totally free-
of-cost." (Applause) Since then, I have never paid money for my
accommodation. That was a permanent agreement between the Divine and
me. (Laughter) I love it!
Give a Talk
One day it was Durgashtami. Swami called me and said, "You give a
talk."
I see. "When?" He told me in the morning.
As I was about to get up, "No, No, not now! In the evening," He said.
(Laughter)
Oh, I see! In the evening, I went there and stood. Two of Swami's
students spoke ahead of me and then I gave a talk. Somehow, it was to
my satisfaction.
Next morning Swami came and said, "It was a very nice talk. Everybody
liked it. I'll give you another chance on Vijayadasami. This time you
speak in Telugu," He said.
"Okay Swami, by Your Grace."
On Vijayadasami Day, again He asked me to speak in Telugu. It also
went well and Swami said to everybody, "This boy has learnt Swami's
literature and he can speak in English and in Telugu fluently." He
was speaking to them about me.
'Swami, why can't You tell me directly? (Laughter) When I'm here, I
don't feel happy. Wouldn't I feel happy if You talked to me? What is
all this 'romance'? There should be a limit to it!' But He was
talking to them about me. All the while, He didn't look at me. See
the romance? This is how it happened! 'All right,' I thought. 'This
is the procedure of this God. We have to fit in, reconcile and
adjust. He won't adjust according to my demands. OK, thank You!'
The next morning, I was about to leave this place. Suddenly some men
said to me, "No, no, no! You should inform Swami before you go."
"Inform Swami and then go? No, no, that's not possible because I'm
sure to lose my job. For eight years, I never informed Him. He never
looked at me. Don't force me to do that now. I have no property.
Please let me go."
"No, no, you should inform Swami," one man said.
"Oh, where do I inform, where?"
He said, "You go sit on the veranda."
'Veranda! That heaven - that's unthinkable! (Laughter) Not in this
lifetime, no, no, no! Or, onto the road with you! That's all
impossible. Then too, the Delhi Seva Dal are in charge of the whole
thing.' (Delhi people, you know, have well-built bodies -- they eat
wheat and all that. They are unlike Southern people, who eat sambhar
and rice. Not that, no! The North people are strong people because of
the wheat -- they are well-built.) 'Who will allow me to go there?
What do I do?'
They were holding their arms like this. (Anil Kumar demonstrates by
placing his arms across his chest). While they were like this, what
did I do? I just ran! Whoooooosh! (Laughter) I ran there and sat on
the veranda. 'They can't pull me out now because this is a safe zone.
(Laughter) It is a Divine, protected area - nobody can come!'
You Are a Pundit
When Swami came, He called me into the interview room and gave me an
envelope. I put it in my pocket. I didn't know what it was. Then He
said, "Get a new dress for the Birthday,"
I said, "Swami, my birthday is October 25th."
Swami said, "Not your birthday! (Laughter) MY Birthday!"
Then I said, "Swami, why should I get a new dress for YOUR Birthday?
(Laughter) Why?"
"Chi, chi, chi! You don't know anything!"
"I see! All right!"
"In that envelope, there is enough money to have two dresses - one
for your birthday and one for My Birthday. (Laughter) All the money
is there. It is enough for the stitching charges; is it all right?"
Oh, I see. Now I understand. So I returned.
During the next year's Dasara, again Swami asked me to give a talk.
At the end of the talk, He called me upstairs in the Mandir.
Upstairs! In those days, there were winding steps, so I climbed them
and waited for Swami. Suddenly He called me and gave me a silk dhoti
as pundits wear. I don't wear dhotis or anything like that.
"Swami, silk dhotis! Why for me? No, no, no! They're given to
pundits."
"Since you are a pundit, I want to honour you."
"Since when?" (Laughter)
"Since you gave a talk here, you are now a pundit."
"Oh, I see Swami." Then He gave me a shawl. "Shawl, Swami, why? No,
No, No, a shawl is given to scholars." Oh, I see.
He said, "You don't understand anything."
Then He gave me a safari suit. "This is the dress for a special
occasion," He went on explaining.
Propagate the Message of Sai
Then my friends, with a great sense of satisfaction, gratitude and
thankfulness, I tell you this: He kept both of His Hands on my head
and said: "Go all over the State of Andhra Pradesh and propagate the
message of Sai -- talk to the devotees." That was the blessing He
gave me. (Applause)
Since then, I never spent any Sunday, any festival day or any
vacation at home. I toured to about a thousand Sai centers all over
Andhra Pradesh. On the average, I must have visited every center at
least thrice, spreading over a period of twenty years. I went all
over the State. During that time, I never purchased any provision
with these hands and I never took care of my children. I did nothing
because I was the 'Minister of Sai External Affairs'. That's all.
(Applause)
I'm really grateful to Bhagavan: He has given me enough strength and
courage through my wife, who could manage the children and could
serve my parents and grandparents. The credit for the family's
success is entirely, totally, wholly, purely and religiously hers. I
have acclaimed the platform performance, whereas the home affairs,
that goes to her.
Let me honestly confess that this has been my life since then. Swami
has given me a number of chances to talk in the Poornachandra
Auditorium every year, twice or thrice.
In the year 1989, Swami suddenly sent a message that I should come to
Bangalore, Whitefield College to serve as the Principal. I stayed in
Bangalore, Whitefield College as the Principal for six years. Then,
during His 70th Birthday Celebration in 1995, Bhagavan transferred me
to Prashanti Nilayam. I have been spending all these days here since.
I'm very grateful to Bhagavan for all the wonderful experiences that
He has given me because that will go on and on for any length of time.
In brief, this is how I came to Bhagavan. Before I pass on to Part
Two of this morning's talk, I again want to thank you for your
patient listening. I thank Bhagavan for having brought me to His
Lotus Feet. My only prayer is that some day, when I am to leave this
body, I should leave speaking like this and not on a bed, no!
(Applause) I want to leave this body while talking to people, while
sharing the joy of Sai's message, that's all. That is my only prayer,
nothing more!
I pray for Bhagavan to bless me. I pray that all of you bless me, so
that I'll have many more occasions of sharing the Divine message, His
mission and leelas with everybody in the years to come. (Applause)
Not to Put Personal Questions
I shall not break my promise to answer some of the questions that I
received, some of the questions that were sent to me. A formal
request has been made to our friends not to ask personal questions.
Questions which are of general use, questions which are of common
interest, questions which would help us to grow spiritually are
welcome, but not personal questions.
I received some personal questions: "We want to go to Canada. Will
Swami permit us or not? Please find out from Him." (Laughter) Nobody
can find this out for you from Swami!
Then somebody said, "We want to settle in Australia, but my wife
says 'no'. My son says 'yes'. What does Swami want me to do? Find out
from Bhagavan." (Laughter) We don't need to find out from Bhagavan!
All of you need to meet and settle the matter between yourselves and
Swami.
I request you again not to ask personal questions. I have no solution
to my own personal problems. (Laughter) How can I give you a solution
to your problems? Impossible! Here everyone has a head-load of
problems. Who am I to give a solution to you? I am not competent
enough to give you any solution to your problems and I would not take
the Divine risk of bringing these problems to Swami's notice. That
would be the last and final day. Well, that I don't want to happen.
(Laughter) Kindly bear with me and do not ask such questions. No
personal questions!
"Are Baba and Jesus the Same?"
Here is one question: "I am a follower of Jesus Christ. Are Baba and
Jesus the same? Or is this form the Christian concept of the Trinity?"
The answer is simple. Bhagavan said, "All names are Mine. All forms
are Mine. I respond to your prayers that are offered to Me in any
name, in any form. I'll answer your prayers. Let the prayers be said
to the God of your choice; they will reach Me. You may pray to Rama,
Krishna, Jesus or Allah - all those prayers will reach Me."
"Swami, how? When I say Rama, how does it reach You?"
Swami gave this example: "You may write a letter to somebody in
England or USA or Delhi or Hyderabad. When the letter is put in the
letterbox or post box, it will reach the addressee. Similarly all
your prayers come to Me. Don't worry, because I am in all forms. All
forms are Mine. All names are Mine," said Bhagavan. Jesus is no
exception.
I'll give you one instance. A doctor from Rome came here as a
participant and delegate for the International Cardiac Conference
held in Prashanti Nilayam. Catholicism is very rigid, very strict. He
was doing his daily prayer to Jesus and going through the scriptures.
He was given accommodation in the North buildings. One day before
dinner, while he was reading the scripture and meditating on Jesus
Christ, suddenly he noticed a hand lying on his shoulder. He looked
back and saw Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
Now he says, "Baba and Christ are one and the same. This I declare at
the cost of my reputation, at the cost of my Catholic faith. My
relatives and friends may forsake me, but I declare that Baba and
Christ are one and the same."
Baba is the Cosmic Christ. Bhagavan is everyone for that matter,
Sarva Devata Swarupa. He represents all deities, all gods -- that is
the answer I can give you.
"Why Should I Suffer Now From Previous Karma?"
Then I received another question. "It is said that, due to one's
karma carried from previous births, he or she suffers in the present
birth. Because of our past karma, we are suffering in the present
life. In my humble belief, to suffer one should know what he or she
has done. Why not suffer in the present birth for the current karma
instead of it being put off till the next birth?" Very good!
"Why should I suffer my karma now from a previous lifetime?"
What did Bhagavan say? My friends, these answers are picked from Sai
literature only. They are not based on my imagination because I'm not
capable of it. I'm supported by Sai literature. If I run short of
answers, I'll seek your forgiveness on the matter. I don't bluff, no!
What does Swami say about this karma aspect? He said, "Some actions
give immediate results." Suppose there is a cut here. (He shows his
finger.) When you are sharpening your pencil and the blade cuts your
skin by mistake, what happens? It bleeds immediately. It is a
reaction - a result of the action then and there! You drink milk and
you don't feel hungry anymore - for an hour anyway. When you take
food, you don't feel hungry for four hours. For hunger to return, it
requires four hours. So, some actions cause immediate results, while
some actions call for an hour or four hours.
If you sow the seed now, you can have mango fruits next year. Why
next year? That's all. For the seed to germinate, for the seed to
sprout, for the tree to grow, for the seed to bear fruit, it will
take a long time. Similarly, some actions give immediate results.
Some actions give result leisurely, slowly. That is how we have to
understand karma.
"What Is 'Bad Company'?"
There's another question put to me. "What about the company we keep?
What is 'good company'? What is 'bad company'? What if I am fooling
myself?" Good, we often do that!
They want a definition. What is 'good company' and what is 'bad
company'? It is a very clear question. To Sai devotees, let us be
sure of the answer. What is good company? Good company is the kind
that will keep us holding onto His Lotus Feet. Good company is that
which will strengthen our faith. Good company is that which will
encourage us to do service. Good company is that which will draw us
closer to His mission. Good company is that which will help us to
withstand the bumps and jumps in life. Good company is that which
will help us not to have too much attachment to money and family.
That is good company.
The company which will help you to run away from here, the company
which will cause you to lose your faith, the company which will make
you go to anybody, anywhere, anytime for any reason, the company
which will make you depressed and frustrated, the company which will
turn you into being an atheist, a non-believer, is horrible,
terrible, bad company.
Being in good company, we find satsang. 'Satsang' means good company.
Bhagavan gave a few examples. The sand in the company of air will go
up. The sand in the company of water will go down. Similarly, in the
company of noble people, we come up in life -- our paths are noble.
In bad company, our thoughts are negative. That is bad company.
Beware of bad company. Baba said, "Run away from bad company."
Tyaja Durjana Samsargam.
Bhaja Sadhu Samagamam.
Be in good company. Run away from bad company.
Smara Nityam Anityatham
Think of what is temporary, what is permanent.
Kuru Karma Ahorathram
Do good deeds day-in and day-out.
These are the dictates of Bhagavan. These are the teachings of Swami.
The people who will help us to proceed in this direction constitute
good company.
The Inner Voice
We have another question: "How does a person know if the voice inside
is God?" A very good question! How do you know if it is the 'inner
voice'?
Point one is that the inner voice is independent; whereas the voice
of psychology - the reflection of psychology, meaning the preferences
and choices, the likes and dislikes of the mind, are never
independent. The psychology - the reflection of psychology, the
preferences and the choices, the likes and the dislikes of the mind -
all of these are never independent.
Here is a simple example: "I want to go to a cinema to see a
picture." That is from the mind.
"Don't go to the picture." That is the inner voice. Am I clear?
Suppose I want to have a bottle of Scotch whiskey. That is the mind.
"If you drink, don't come to Puttaparthi." That is the inner voice.
(Laughter)
"I want to enjoy the weekend in Miami Beach, why not! In a Holiday
Inn, we can enjoy ourselves." That is the mind
"Don't go there! Go to a Sai Centre." That is the inner voice.
The inner voice is not ambiguous -- it gives no scope for doubt. It
is straight. It has nothing to do with your preferences, your likes
or choices. It is always direct. It doesn't give you an option
like, "Do this or that." "Shall I go to this place or that?" "No, No!
Stop and be here, that's all."
So, the inner voice is very clear. It gives you no scope for choice.
The inner voice is instructive. The inner voice is affirmative. The
inner voice is not ambiguous. The inner voice is independent. The
inner voice comes from the Love centre. The inner voice is Truth-
based. The inner voice is peace-directed. The inner voice is non-
violent. The inner voice is based on all these values. The inner
voice is Divine. The inner voice is spiritual. The inner voice is the
conscience, nothing less than that. That is the answer.
How does a person know what is right action? What is right action? To
quote Bhagavan:
See what is good. Don't see what is bad.
Hear what is good. Hear no evil.
Do no evil. Do what is good.
Think no evil. Think what is good.
See no evil. See what is good.
This is right action. This is the way to God. So right action is
service; right action is selfless; right action is holy; right action
is Divine. Right action should be our life goal. That is the answer
to this question.
"Why Is a Person Born and Born Again?"
Here is another question: "Why does a person die and die again? Then
he's born and born again. Why does this happen?"
The answer is simple. There is a simple meaning from Sai literature.
Individually, it is impossible for us to answer. We are reborn again
and again - why? We aren't able to come out of the cycle of birth and
death - why? Why birth? Why death?
Birth and death are due to thoughts or sankalpa. Thoughts and counter-
thoughts are responsible for our birth and rebirth. When we are
thoughtless, when the mind is withdrawn, when the ego is totally
gone, when there is no thinking process, when we turn inward, when we
experience the soul, the spirit, the consciousness, we are not born
again.
Because we don't experience the 'conscience', we don't experience
the 'consciousness'. We are attached to our thought. We are attached
to our body. We are attached to our ego. Therefore, we are reborn
again and again. I think I'm clear.
Another point is that, truly speaking, there is no birth and no
death. There is no birth; there is no death. The one born is the
body; the one dying is the body. But the 'I' is still there.
A simple example: I remove this bulb here. Does this mean there is no
current? There is still a current, but the bulb gave an expression to
the current by shedding light. Once the bulb is taken out, there
still is a current!
Similarly, you and I exist as current. The body is the bulb. Whether
the body is there or not, the current is still there. Similarly,
there is no birth; there is no death. It is only changing the dress,
the nightgown, the evening gown, the swimsuit, or the golf dress,
that's all, right? Therefore, we change our dress, but the 'I'
remains the same. Truly there's no birth and no death whatsoever.
Examples of Reaction, Reflection, and Resound
My friends, I'm happy to receive all these questions. There is one
last question today. "Can you give some examples of reaction,
reflection, and resound?"
We have any number of examples. Stand in front of the mirror -- it is
reflection. If I stand in front of the mirror, I see my own
reflection. But there is philosophy behind it. The object is God; the
mirror is nature. The reflection is the individual, the main object
is Divine. The mirror is the world; the mirror is nature. That is the
example for reflection.
Second, reaction: Because of good thoughts, a positive mind, we have
positive results. Swami was telling us the other day, "If you love
everyone, God will love you. If you serve everyone, you will be
served. See the reaction! If you hate everyone, everyone will hate
you. If you love all, everyone will love you." So this is reaction.
As is the action, so is the reaction.
Then, resound: If I am here and shout, "Sai, Sai!" I get the same
sound, "Sai Sai."
"Sai, Sai," I get the same resound.
That's what Baba said. If you say 'yes', Baba will say 'yes'. If you
say 'no', you'll get the answer 'no'. 'Yes', 'no', belong to you; but
Swami says, 'Yes, Yes!'
"Swami, I want to die now."
"Yes, Yes!" (Laughter)
"Swami, I got my leg fractured."
"Yes, Yes, very good!" (Laughter)
"Swami, my grandmother died."
"Nice, Yes, Yes, Yes!"
"I want to get married."
"Yes, Yes, Yes!"
"I don't want to marry."
"Yes, Yes, Yes!" (Laughter) This is resound.
These are all examples of reaction, reflection and resound.
Thank you very much for being with us this morning!
May Bhagavan be with you forever and ever!
Thank you!
(Applause)
Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai!
Om Asato Maa Sad Gamaya
Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya
Mrtyormaa Amrtam Gamaya
Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai!
Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai!
Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai!
Thank You!
